Why is the discussion of the "okay gesture" under A-OK?. Perhaps title the article "OK (hand gesture)". There doesn't seem to be any basis for calling the gesture "A-OK" and not simply okay.
A-Ok as an article would be better applied to the astronaut usage of the 60's (see the Shorty Powers discussion below) Feldercarb (talk) 00:38, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
The sentence that said the gesture is commonly positive in western countries was too vague. Most people would include southern and eastern Europe as part of "The West" and many would also include Brazil. Setting up an opposition between "The West" and "The Rest" isn't very useful. Interlingua talk email 02:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
This sign has no offensive meaning in Spain, nor in southern France or Portugal, AFAIK. Maybe this phrase is just inaccurate. Also, the linked "marica" article has nothing to do with the proposed meaning (faggot). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.163.50.211 (talk) 10:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC).
Sources for my addition (all German): http://wissen.spiegel.de/wissen/dokument/dokument.html?id=40351323&top=SPIEGEL http://www.an-online.de/sixcms/detail.php?template=an_detail&id=376501&_wo=Auto http://www.zorno.de/marketinggalerie/bilder/missverstaendliche-bedeutungen.html There are several cases of drivers who were fined for showing this gesture. Didn't find any particular cases online yet. If necessary I can look more thoroughly. bossel (talk) 12:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
It was snipped from an spam image cropping the spam link, but it's still a terrible picture (blur/shadow/glare). NTK 19:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
at least in switzerland, germany, netherland I think it can also mean "excellent" or "perfect" ... what about that?
How often is this thing used? ForeignerFromTheEast 18:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
A reliable source is what you need. You can't just write what you think about the use of this symbol. Such extensive explanation/analysis of its use requires a source. --Cheeser1 23:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I have some pictures, unfortunately they are all in the form of images, are they still reliable enough? [1], [2] (Mostly Serbian three-finger salutes, but one A-ok is visible on the right) [3]. There are more but I cannot find the links. Frightner 14:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.246.37 (talk)
A decade after the above discussion, I went and searched widely for a reliable source (e.g., an article in a newspaper or magazine) on this gesture as one rallying for a United Macedonia. After many hours, I came up empty-handed. Morganfitzp (talk) 00:36, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Om page 139 of "Flight, My Life in Mission Control", Chris Kraft asserts that Mercury Public Affairs Officer (PAO) Shorty Powers of NASA invented A-OK in describing how the flight of Alan Shepard's Freedom 7 was progressing. That space flight was the first to put an American astronaut in space. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.144.78.190 (talk) 05:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
in contrast to ... er ... above-water diving? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.85.156.199 (talk) 10:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't have any sources right now, but I have heard in multiple places that some people have used this as a "satanic" signal representing the number of the beast, 666. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.179.43.13 (talk) 21:05, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Is it merited to mention that in some places among 10-25 year olds (approx), if you make this gesture at a height below your waist and someone looks at the hole, you're "allowed" to punch them on the shoulder?
Also, the game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.194.133.9 (talk) 01:59, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
The article currently reads as follows (with no source cited):
I know only a bit of ASL, but I think the hand position is different for OK and ASSHOLE, and the hand shape for F in the manual alphabet is different (though similar). Position/orientation as well as hand shape are phonemic in ASL. In any case, a reliable source would be needed. Cnilep (talk) 04:45, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
Since the beginning of Ganesha (or, Ganesh) representation, OK hand gesture has been one of his main attributes. His job is balance of the universe. Think old ideas of elephants balancing the Earth, heavy loads, etc. No matter what strange weather has hit, no matter who died, the circle is whole, the hole is infinite, and radiating fingers are reverberations like waves or ripples ascending from an infinitely rotating circle of energy. Worshipers are calmed by the notion that Ganesh is on watch, the universe is being looked after, everything is turning according to schedule, everything will be fine. Ganesh is the combination of a giddy little boy's body, and a worn elephants head--one tusk broken off like the most experienced of bulls (male elephants). the regeneration symbol, if you will. "Everything is" is his mantra. This is synonymous with American ideas of acceptability in the face of tension. Acquired as a battlefield gesture, it doesn't reflect clockwork, it suggests that things are manageable, "Everything's as good as is necessary in this trench". This scenario is also seen in the iconic dancing Shiva figurine. With many arms radiating out, Shiva doesn’t walk on fire, he dances on it, relishing in the tension of destruction/creation. With his hand he gestures that everything is regenerating infinitely, coming from a hole, and emanating out in spiraling waves of energy. This life/death tension is otherwise noted in archaic icons showing the elephant god riding, sitting or dancing on his impossible mouse transport/companion. The happy tension is also depicted with a downward hand holding death (Ganesha’s own broken tusk) and an upward swung trunk or hand possessing a sweet delicacy; something taken away, something given. If there are other hands presented, like reverberations or avatars, they usually hold axes and such reiterating Ganesha’s position as “remover of obstacles” Prominent front right or left hands will alternate offering the OK gesture, and sometimes this is accompanied with a swastika stained palm reinstating the wheel of perpetual change to really ‘hit the idea home’.
The Arabic acquired numerical symbol for zero cannot be overlooked as a profound concept. While often overlooked as a lesser or diminutive concept in western culture, it is always a part of thee most significant paradoxical duality in the east. In this, dark is not "versus" light-- the two are perpetually entwined; Yin and Yang, Yoni and Lingum, etc. In the case of Ganesh, a large ring might be held with the same hand motioning the OK gesture. Like often misattributed sun worshipping idolatry, the significant aspects are the empty circle and the layers of fingers or rays projecting out from it.
Much confusion in early myth is attributed to purported culturally feeble folk tales, in the way that such creationist myths are viewed as impossibly overlapping and without a resolute beginning. Who made God in Christianity? Where did the dark rivers flow from in Ra’s Egyptian beginning? How did those turtles and elephants get placed under Earth’s globe? Who churned up the universe’s stars from dusty milk to solid buttery balls of existence? Somethingness and Nothingness are equivalent in this methodology. Relating back to Ganesh, it is not that your pangs and pleasures are not momentous and significant, it is just more that they are apart of the same adventure, along which, everything will be not without difficulty, but it will be OK. The zero is at the heart of the OK gesture. Attribute it to the annals of the arse if you please, but that dark hole is just one turn away from a womb, in any physical or metaphysical direction.
Gallant Gland (talk) 03:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
In the article the sentence "In Chinese number gestures, it is the hand gesture for number three." is placed under the headline "neagative connotation". In do not see any negative with the number gesture. Should it not be neutral? -- 92.228.63.92 (talk) 21:07, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
Used in the Prisoner series with the words "Be seeing you" as a parting gesture, and a reminder that one is always under surveillance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.42.78.219 (talk) 23:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
In this picture, Uncle Sam is doing the gesture... AnonMoos (talk) 10:33, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Right now it's it's just random factoids. No organization. Very annoying.
First and foremost: Better name. Your naming an ancient widespread gesture "A-OK" a jargony faddish term from the 1960s? Call it either the more common English label ("OK gesture") or description (Thumb index finger ring)
"AOK" phrase history should be moved to OK-word article.
First section should be history, origin, distribution of its most common meaning in Anglosphere ("OK"). This is English-language encyclopedia so I think its ok to assume thats what most readers see it as. you should start there. you doen't even say when gesture first showed up. See Desmond Morris Gestures.
separate section for all the alternate specialized meanings in Anglosphere like ASL, unicode or scuba diving.
Separate section for worldwide meanings, grouped either by positive/negative, or by culture/region. 173.53.75.228 (talk) 13:09, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
Not sure how common this is, but at least in Western Australia, making the "A-OK" over your nose doesn't mean "drunk", it's a vulgar way to indicate you have no idea what's being spoken about/going on (poking your nose through the hole = "fuck knows/nose")
The sign stems from North American tribes,when hunting in cold weather hands become stiff,the sign was made using the thumb and little finger,it was a silent way to communicate they were still able to draw a bow or grip a spear,this sign was picked up on by interaction between the natives and early trappers and became popular in everyday life and over the years lost its original meaning,run your hand under a cold tap for 10 minutes to simulate long exposure to cold weather then try to touch the two fingers together,certain military units still use the old sign today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.117.166 (talk) 12:47, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Although some Americans may refer to the hand gesture as the "A-OK" sign, it is by no means universal, even in America, where it is most commonly known as simply "OK". Despite several requests for citations, the article gives no reliable evidence that the hand gesture is widely synonymous with the phrase "A-OK" as popularized by the American space program in the 1960s, rather than the more generic "OK". The hand gesture has actually been used to mean "OK" in America since at least the 1860s - a fact which the article should also mention.
I'm going to proceed with splitting, by moving the information about the phrase "A-OK" into the OK article, and renaming this article to "OK (hand gesture)". This is still somewhat American-centric, since there are many different meanings around the world, but since there is no universal name for the gesture, it seems like the best compromise. IamNotU (talk) 15:19, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
I read in an article by a fairly respectable paper that this sign is made by white supremacists. The three fingers make the W(hite) and the circle represents the P(ower). I don't have any way to verify that, but the claim has been levied at all manner of suspected alt-right personalities. To be honest, it seems a little far fetched and moral panic-y. But if it's true, then it might be worth a mention in this article. 209.169.79.203 (talk) 20:46, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
It's effectively a meme. /pol/ intentionally tried to convince the media that the OK gesture is a sign for white power, even though the sign has no such meaning. It's exactly how the Pepe meme became associated with the alt-right, and people are falling for it, because it gives them a target. It's absolutely silly, because of how well known this symbol is. Next they're probably going to convince everyone that a Thumbs Up symbol is a white supremacist symbol. Here's a 4chan archive of a relevant thread from February. Just because a writer on The Independent was fooled, doesn't make it true. Ragef33 (talk) 23:18, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I imagine this may have some place on this page, but care definitely needs to be taken. It should be made clear just how it originated, that it was basically a manner of trolling by people who wanted to make fun of the Left. I say care needs to be made so that it can be made clear that it isn't and hasn't been used in this way, that the claims to this are based on deliberate fabrications. That said, considering that it's already spreading from big reporters it might not hurt to note it.98.197.193.213 (talk) 21:31, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Even though it's origins as a racist signal were a joke, it has grown in usage significantly, specifically in anti antifa protests. I read somewhere that it originated as an ironic protest against censorship, but now it is used widely and unironically. I agree that care needs to be taken when adding to this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.6.30 (talk) 07:51, 11 June 2017 (UTC) Where is there any proof that it is now being used unironically? Also, why would it being used at anti-antifa ralleys make it racist?
I'd say it would be a smart idea to adjust the final section of this article concerning the 4 Chan hoax meaning of the symbol so as to not render them or their silly shenanigans any undue credence. The ADL itself recognizes that the OK sign, a gesture that's been used worldwide since the ancient times, has not suddenly devolved into some kind of white supremacist hate gesture. I would like to put forward an edit to the article so that it doesn't spread false information (which is currently poorly cited anyways), but references the 4 Chan hoax directly and names it as such. If there are instances where it has actually been used to represent a white power hand gesture, those instances should be referenced, not simply alleged. I may borrow Ragef33's archival reference for the edit (thanks in advance!). Riftcast (talk) 20:05, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
(UTC)
medical usage:OK sign for testing anterior interosseous nerve, a nerve in forearm supplying deep flexor muscles. Can this be added to the article? -- 15:51, 19 April 2018 103.219.46.162
Is this WP:UNDUE? It's an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory from the depths of the internet with major BLP issues, especially when it concerns a Mexican Jewish woman Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 14:37, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
I've re-added the info about Bash and the Twitter allegations. If we're going to list every newsworthy incident involving the gesture – not that we should – then Bash's case seems to have been the first. I've stressed that the allegation was false and that Bash is Jewish and Mexican-American. But those facts alone don't make it WP:UNDUE if multiple mainstream sources have covered it, which they have. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 12:07, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
The article should mention that the title of a popular Indian film was this symbol: Super (2010 Indian film). 117.198.120.49 (talk) 05:59, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
When I was taught to dive in 1982 by an internationally certified trainer, we were taught to flash the OK signal very crisply - totally unlike the sloppy photo. The three fingers are to be straight and tight together. If indeed this is now taken by some as a white power sign because the three fingers represent a 'W', that's another reason for executing the sign accurately.Cross Reference (talk) 14:57, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
I would like to suggest that the word "hoax" should be removed or replaced by something else in this subheadline and the following paragraph. It implies that the association of the gesture with white supremacy is a falsehood, which is no longer true. The gesture now represents white supremacy in many contexts and is being used and understood as such, both ironically and unironically. The intentions of those who deliberately associated the gesture with white power are irrelevant for its current status as a symbol. It is not a "hoax" by definition, because the symbolism is real and not a falsehood. 2A02:908:D84:4560:78B6:7A79:2938:2A2B (talk) 19:33, 9 November 2019 (UTC)A
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:38, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
In 2017, users on the message-board site 4chan aimed to convince the media that the OK gesture, or the upside-down version of it, was being used as a white power movement symbol.
I am not sure if this is completely correct. Usage of the okay sign as a hate symbol was already documented by Media Matters two weeks before the cited 4chan post. [7] This could be added to the list of people who are accused of showing the okay sign in support of white-supremacist ideology. But then again, the aforementioned sentence would be wrong, as 4chan users were not trying to convince the media of the OK gesture being a hate symbol, but rather trying to convince the media that they are just making it up. A double bluff, so to speak. Would this constitute original research? If yes, I could only find a post on medium.com as a backup source yet. [8]
A lot of people mistakenly think that the alt-right use of the gesture originated with this 4chan hoax. But by the time this post was made in February 2017, the OK sign was well established as a far-right meme. The 4chan post is therefore evidence not of the creation of a hoax ex nihilo, but an instance of obfuscation, generating confusion over the origins of a preexisting phenomenon.
--2A04:4540:820D:EF00:77EB:188B:35FF:6171 (talk) 18:24, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Just like in the UK an index and a middle finger with the palm facing front means number 2, but with the palm facing back means a completely different thing, this ok gesture with the palm facing back does not mean ok. In Venezuela, for example, it's an offensive homophobic gesture.
I'm really surprised that the enjosi has been wrong for so long. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.195.122.15 (talk) 10:41, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
Why is the emoji facing backwards? It is wrong and I cannot understand why. As you can see by the wikipedia entry itself, the ok sign is the other way around. with the extended fingers facing the receptor.
Is there an explanation for this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcongosto (talk • contribs) 10:07, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
i boldly removed Cernovich from the list of white power examples. his article only describes him as a male supremacist (or what i learned in school as "chavinism") so i removed him from the list. i can not find enough material to support removal of the rest of the list. .usarnamechoice (talk) 22:48, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
greetings: Doug Weller asked that i come and defend one of the changes made yesterday. the prose describes a quote made by ADL on May 1, 2017. the ADL said one thing on that date, then later changed their minds and redirected the link to a new quote, made later. here is the material i replaced. notice the date of May 1, 2017
{{blockquote |Has the simple thumb-and-forefinger 'OK' hand gesture become a common white supremacist hand sign? Not quite, but it has become a popular gesture used by people across several segments of the right and far right—including some actual white supremacists—who generally use it to trigger reactions. [...] Only if the gesture occurs in context with other clear indicators of white supremacy can one draw that conclusion.<ref name="ADL OK">{{cite web |url=https://www.adl.org/blog/how-the-ok-symbol-became-a-popular-trolling-gesture |title=How the 'OK' Symbol Became a Popular Trolling Gesture |date=1 May 2017 |publisher=Anti-Defamation League}}</ref>}}
and here is the material with which i replaced the above text:
{{blockquote |Has the simple thumb-and-forefinger “OK” hand gesture become a white supremacist hand sign? Well, no, it hasn’t, but you are likely to hear just the opposite from social media, thanks to the latest hoax from members of notorious website 4chan.<ref name="ADL OK">{{cite web |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170615223626/https://www.adl.org/blog/no-the-ok-gesture-is-not-a-hate-symbol |title=No, the "OK" Gesture Is Not a Hate Symbol |date=1 May 2017 |publisher=Anti-Defamation League |accessdate=June 15, 2017}}</ref>}}
notice the use of an Wayback link, and the use of the accessdate parameter, which i now see wasn't used correctly. Doug Weller claims to have clicked the link and confirmed that i vandalized the article but he apparently did not click the Wayback link i included in order to show exactly what the ADL said on May 1, 2017. the text as i found it was alleged to be from that date, but a quick look at that Wayback link shows they said one thing on May 1, 2017 and changed it to a different statement later. i also notice that Doug Weller did not assume good faith in his edit summary, accusing me of vandalism and claiming, of the quotation, that i seemed to have "made up the new one":
(Undid revision 1093803835 by .usarnamechoice never change quotations, I checked and the earlier version is correct, you seem to have made up the new one, if I'm wrong you can demonstrate it on the talk page)
i would respectfully ask others to simply assume good faith, click the link, and then compare before casting aspersions. :^) .usarnamechoice (talk) 17:54, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
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